The Future of PC Gaming and DRM

[PK|Cerro]

What future do you see for PC games and DRM? Do you think EA will continue publishing DRM games (http://stupidevilbastard.com/index/seb/comments/ea_boss_on_drm_protesters_half_are_pirates_and_the _other_half_are_stupid/)? What do you think of Securom 7 and Starforce? A necessary evil or big corporate suits after their cut?

Do you like the idea of steam (or other content delivery systems) or do you prefer to have a physical copy? Do you resell your games or do you think games developers are right to prevent us selling games on?

What are you thoughts on DRM in general?

[PK|Elite]

DRM is a reason for the slow death of pc gaming.. People are jumping the console band wagon

[PK|PopeBuckfastXVI]

I'd like to think someone, somewhere will realise that many people download software using torrents etc. specifically to avoid badly written DRM software abusing the resources of the system.

If you think about DRM Software, the 'customer' isn't the one using it, so they have a single priority; lock it the fuck down.

They don't give a flying shit what it does to the end users computer, or how much memory or processing power, or network bandwidth it takes up because they are unaffected by it.

The funny thing is the end user is actually the one paying for it, and they are the ones given the least consideration!

A potential solution is to uncouple the DRM from the Software, so you could say, here's Game X, it's compatible with DRM A, B and C, and it's up to the end user to choose which DRM they want to use.

This would incentivise DRM Companies to make theirs as unobtrusive and user friendly as possible, as it will be the end user who is making the choice.

I won't be holding my breath though...

[PK|Lemming]

Do you resell your games or do you think games developers are right to prevent us selling games on?

If car manufacturer's tried this there would be an uproar, however Games publishers/producers claim they are protecting thier "Intellectual Property" through DRM's.

Once they stick it in a box on a shelf (real or virtual) it then becomes a Product, in the same way vehicles depreciate games become obsolete as the hardware they were developed for is superceded.

If legally challenged on the "right to resell" they could find themselves either losing or being forced to support old games for decades, and i don't think they've really considered the latter option, the problem is affording the cost of legally challenging them.

[PK|Cerro]

DRM is a reason for the slow death of pc gaming.. People are jumping the console band wagon

Don't mistake "jumping to the console band wagon" for "being forced to play games on the console because the publisher doesn't want it on the PC" ala EA Sports games such as Madden - where they deliberately failed to update the game engine for 5 years (while the consoles all got an update) and then claimed "PC sales and piracy are forcing us away from a PC format of the game" despite the fact that the game was most popular on the PC, but they couldn't charge £45-50 for the PC version, so they binned it.

I mean, why would you want an inferior quality game, at twice the price, a lesser online experience and limited controllers (keyboard and mouse?). DRM is just a good way to "push" us to an environment which is easy to control and makes more money. It must be pretty clear to companies like EA that people don't want DRM - 90% piracy rate of Spore and other DRM games?

Think of it like this, you can get a pirate copy of the game and use it however you like, it is yours for life and (ironically enough) even though you are a criminal, at least you don't get treated like one OR you can get the DRM version and hope that:

A - The technology that DRM uses does not change (e.g new version of Windows screws up DRM drivers)
B - The company that handles the activations is still around in 10 years time

Take Steam for example, if Valve goes under it is not obligated to continue running Steam. So all those games you have under Steam, stop working. Also, I have no way of selling those steam games I have bought - why is there no way to trade-in or gift my old games? I am surprised no one has challenged Valve's EULA on non-transferable accounts. After all we pay full retail price (or more) for steam games, so why in the hell can't I sell it on like a retail copy? If I am renting/subscribing to the game, then I want it at half the price! That's another thing that bothers me, valve don't seem to push down game prices - they are cutting the cost of delivering the games, but we (the customers) don't see any benefit, in fact we lose out on the right to resell the game once we are done and run the risk of losing access to the game in the future... begs the question "What's in it for me?"

I see PC gaming going one of three ways:

Steam and a rival (there has to be a rival because Valve at the moment aren't being pushed) rolling out a subscription based service like WoW for each game, which would be very cheap like 1p per day and you could stop at anytime or you could pay full retail price, pay no subscription and be able to gift the game once you are done - no doubt people would "gift" it in exchange for a lower price.

Or (and this one would be interesting just to see how it pans out) a games developer creates a game and sells it on a donation basis. The idea being that if people like the game and want to see a sequel or more games from this developer then they will donate. I know that I would actually donate and on games I really loved like Arcanum, I would have happily donated £50 to see a sequel of that game made! In a perfect world this model would work, but the world ain't perfect...

Or things go like they have with Fallout 3. Securom7 but with no DRM - which sounds reasonable enough to me. I'm not all in favour of Securom7 but at least it lets me do what I want with my copy of the game. In short, Starforce/Securom while I don't support either I'm not all out against them (the cries of "it screws up my comp" are little unfounded) but I don't agree with them forcing you to uninstall applications like Daemon Tools or Alcohol 120% before you can run a game - what right have they to tell me what I can/cannot install on my PC?

[PK|Deep Blue]

I like Steam, I have actually gotten a refund despite their no refunds policy :)

When you buy games packs you can gift games that you already own, I previously bought TF2, then bought orange box. I could gift my additional copy of HL2 etc, but not TF2 - wtf?

Valve were not going to refund me, so I provided a link to the distance selling regulations laws within the UK (government website too) and low and behold valve make a one time good will gesture and give me a refund despite a no refunds policy!

Disc copy protection, never caused me any problems either - I have no problems with manufacturers trying to stop people copying their game media. I don't like the "you can install this only so many times before you need to buy a new copy" bullshit though!

Valve going down the tube? Millions of people loosing access to their games? unlikely, plus i'd rather pay once for the rights to play such games via steam. Than buy the game and pay per month to play it, ala WoW and other MMO's.

[PK|Colonel Ames]

I like Steam, I have actually gotten a refund despite their no refunds policy :)

When you buy games packs you can gift games that you already own, I previously bought TF2, then bought orange box. I could gift my additional copy of HL2 etc, but not TF2 - wtf?

Valve were not going to refund me, so I provided a link to the distance selling regulations laws within the UK (government website too) and low and behold valve make a one time good will gesture and give me a refund despite a no refunds policy!

Disc copy protection, never caused me any problems either - I have no problems with manufacturers trying to stop people copying their game media. I don't like the "you can install this only so many times before you need to buy a new copy" bullshit though!

Valve going down the tube? Millions of people loosing access to their games? unlikely, plus i'd rather pay once for the rights to play such games via steam. Than buy the game and pay per month to play it, ala WoW and other MMO's.

I have pretty much the same opinion here.

I love the ability to buy a game without having hard copy's lying around gathering dust. I really do see Steam and other clients like it (When they start to appear) being the future. What was once a complete pig to run and something that invaded your machine and completely fucked up the only game I've ever truely loved, has listened to the cries of it's users and actually tried to improve it, seemingly for our benefit!

I am comletely against having to Pay subscriptions for games i've already purchased, especially at the price that games like WOW are charging, it's just extortionate. There is no need to have to pay that much considering the amount of users it has.

As for the DRM stuff, i'm not completely against it. I can undrestand why companies want to stop the copying and illegal distribution of their products after all they spent a lot of time and money creating something for our enjoyment. I don't agree with the limited Installs though. Say someone has to rebuild their PC several times in a month due to issues. They'll be forced to buy another copy of the game simply because of this. And as Cerro said about the "Forcing you to uninstall certain softwares", who the hell are they to enforce this? that is just wrong.

[PK|Cerro]

You can only gift Steam games you have not installed (or games you have extra copies of). And yes they should refund anything under the distance selling regulations but only 7 days after the 1st day of receipt of the item (in other words, 8 days after you download and install the application). So under those regulations they were obligated to refund your uninstalled additional copy.

I am surprised no one has yet challenge Valve on their stance of "no-refunds and no transfers - but you pay full price". I don't like the idea of a subscription service but that is exactly what Steam is... you don't "own" a copy of the game, you are subscribing to it and so they can cancel your subscription and account at any time. And (although unlikely) they can start doing a monthly charge for a Steam subscription. They already exist, you pay a certain amount per month and you get to download and install as many games as you like but if you stop paying, you lose access to those games. I hate the idea but it seems more acceptable than paying full price for a subscription... In the end it comes down to a choice between paying a small amount for all the games you want as long as you keep paying or paying full price and not getting the full rights to your copy of the game...

Make no mistake though, Steam is DRM - it's just seen as acceptable despite the fact that it is actually more restrictive in terms of your rights to the copy of the game. You can install it as many times as you like, but you can't (re)sell it or trade it in

Valve going down the tube might seem highly improbable but it's not impossible - It wasn't all too long ago people were saying "Banks will never go under". Everytime you screw up a card transaction on Steam, it costs Vale $150 plus the price of the game.

[PK|Colonel Ames]

I wouldn't say Steam will "never" go down, but if they remain unchallenged like this then there is no reason why they would.

[PK|Deep Blue]

I got an extra copy of TF2, which was ungiftable, that was my problem. Bought single, installed, great. Bought orange box, unable to gift additional copy of TF2.

If Valve disappeared so would their games, the matchmaking and everything else. Even though people may be able to keep the games alive, the userbase would be wiped out. Games like TF2 and CSS would just not be fun anymore.

I like steam, I can install all my games on all my computers, so what if I can only play one of them at a time? That's the point, single user license :)

If two friends come round and they own the same games on their steam accounts, then they can just log on and play. It's awesome :)

I like diskless installs too, patches handled automatically, new third party HL2 mods being added all the time. Synergy, Zombie Panic Source etc

Limited installs has to go however

[PK|ReUsed]

STEAM.

I'm sorry for not contributing much to this, but i'd probably just be repeating on what Dex has stated. I love not needing discs. I love it, I love it, I love it.

The ability to have all your games stored electronically, like an internet-based games bank, from which we can withdraw and deposit any of our existing games or new games.

[PK|Colonel Ames]

Not only that but you can play as your self from anywhere in the world. All internet game cafes have steam installed on them and all the games pre-installed. and now with "Steam Cloud" introduced with L4D, you no longer have to spend time setting the games up to your liking, it creates your preferred settings for you. Genius.

[PK|Cerro]

Steam has it's benefits but people seem to ignore it's downsides - like no resale or refunds and the basic cost of games, why buy a Steam game when the hardcopy is cheaper? And you can always turn the dvd into an iso and mount it - saves having to bother with discs. That and the need to be fully patched to play and if you don't you can't even play in offline mode.

Having tried Metaboli (http://www.metaboli.co.uk/) (now merging with GameTap) off Colly one night, this is how I see PC gaming going. Play the game as you are downloading it, download any game you want and pay £7 a month. Put it this way, you can buy a game off Steam, play it for 4 months, get bored of it (or worse hate it) and get nothing in return for it or you can play any game you like for 4 months and once you get bored of it, just start playing a different game... in effect you are spreading the cost of a Steam game. Yes it's still a form of DRM, but since you renting the game and paying rental prices - you can't exactly complain. But they have their gamesplanet service which lets you buy and download a game to own and then you can burn a copy legally, which is about as DRM free as you can get online.

But in truth, I would much rather just have the physical, DRM-less copy of the game and do what I want with it. Sure online distribution services are handy but how often are you actually away from your home PC?

[PK|Argaf]

Interesting update on this subject: (Copied from Toms Hardware)...

Electronic Arts is trying to make things right again with the release of the SecuROM de-authorization tool.


ZoomPC gamers probably know all too well the pains caused by SecuROM copy protection. EA’s game management system with SecuROM places a limit on its games to be installed on up to five computers to play the game.

While good in theory, in practice this just caused headaches for gamers who legitimately purchased the game. To ease their pain, EA has now released a tool that will manage the authorizations of each of the SecuROM’s protected games.

“If your EA PC game was released after May 2008 and has a machine authorization limit, you can now manage your computer authorizations using EA De-Authorization Tools!” EA released.

Gamers have the option to download a tool that will scan a user’s computer for any applicable games to de-authorize, or the user may choose to selectively download tools specific to each game.

The games affected are:

•Burnout Paradise: The Ultimate Box
•Command & Conquer: Red Alert 3
•Crysis Warhead
•Dead Space
•FIFA Manager 09
•FIFA Soccer 09
•Littlest Pet Shop
•The Lord of the Rings: Conquest
•Mass Effect
•Mercenaries 2: World in Flames
•Mirror's Edge
•MySims
•Need for Speed: Undercover
•NHL 09
•Spore
•Spore Creature Creator
•The Sims 2: Apartment Life
•The Sims 2 IKEA Home Stuff
•The Sims 2 Mansion and Garden Stuff
With new developments in game DRM from Microsoft, Valve and Stardock, perhaps life will get easier for PC gamers who buy their games.

[PK|Cerro]

That tool has been out awhile... the complaint with that is if you reformat your PC without using the tool first, it uses up one of your authorisations and there is no way to get that back.