9/11 ... 5 Years Later

[PK|Solid_Snake]

5 years have passed since the most devastating attack on american soil (not counting pearl harbour). What has changed in the world ? Do you think that we are in a safer world? What do you think about the way "War against Terrorism" is being waged, is it justified ? How did these event change the way you see things and the way you live ?


I remember watching it all, I was in the US at the time, the flaming towers, the second plane crashing into the towers, people jumping off the building with nothing else than their suitcase. All of that practically in real time. Then the collapse and the panic that followed ( the fear that everyday there would be an attack, how the media played with the Americans by scaring them for no apparent reason, everywhere , people thought that their little towns could be attacked by terrorists and blindly followed a puppet president, leading them into devasting events, like the patriot act and the war in Iraq all in the name of the crusade against terrorism. Why the word crusade? well it is quite simple to me, when the leader of a country wages war and keeps repeating that "god is with us" while his army gets massacred on the other side of the world makes me think of the crusades against the Muslims in Jerusalem during the Middle Ages...) /endrant

[PK|PopeBuckfastXVI]

Oh sure there's no doubt that america is far safer now, and the likelihood of an attack against america is practically zero, the war on terror is totally working...

/endsarcasm

[PK|Soleft]

Ye the only people that would actually support Bush is the ignorant and brainwashed.

[PK|Cerro]

While his army is getting massacred on the other side of the world? Hardly... its not a vietnam, they is not a huge body count of US soliders - its more civilians. Any open battle would just end up in alot of dead insurgents - NATO action in afganistan being the most recent example. Then there are a few american soliders with over 200 confimed kills, just from sitting in a tank using a machine gun (awesome).

Only way to "win" the war on terror is to wipe them out completely. In other words, kill everyone who you suspect could be/will be/might be an enemy. Its not impossible, Stalin managed it - 50 million russians (including war dead) and to this day the vast majority of russians believe he was their greatest leader ever! It would be like hitler winning and then everyone believing he was the Jew's best friend... if you've killed everyone there's no one left to remember and since you won, you can just rewrite history to suit you. As Iosif would say "In order to truly defeat your enemy you must not only kill him, but kill his family, his friends and their familes, only then will you have destroyed him completely"

As for justification - Iraq issue aside - the invasion of Afganistan was entirely justified. Its only been Iraq which has inflamed the entire problem. Afganistan was just drawing the hardcore muslim fanatics out and we were getting somewhere... It would have been safer if it wasn't for Iraq but its done now so we have to stay until the job is done.

Mind you, leaving them to a civil war where they kill each other would be a good change - probably see a hardline islamic regime appear much like Iran, attempt to achieve nuclear armament, piss off israel only to be nuked by israel itself... problem might actually solve itself if we leave them to it, Israel might feel threatened enough to use its nukes... as long as we keep the pressure on israel to recognise a state of palestine the arab world can't complain. The middle east will end up a radioactive wasteland which no one wants anyway (and no one really cares about) - i like this solution. lol

[PK|Default PlayR]

Yes thousands of Innocent civilians lost their lives that day, and yes it was awful...but as soon at that 1st plane hit the WTC, hundreds of thousands of people around the world were doomed as it was inevitable that America would go to war.

However 5 years on, and there is still so many different theories what happened that day...some blame Bin laden, some blame the US government and it was all staged. Whatever the truth is, we must come to realise that in this sick & twisted world that we live in we are no longer safe - and pray that when the next terrorist attack happens (and it will), we wont be caught up in it all.

[PK|Setanta]

Its a really bad situation we are getting into.

Jews V Muslims. Blacks V Whites. Greens V Blacks. Cathlotics V Protestants.

There is too much hate in the world. It really makes me sad.

[PK|ReUsed]

Yes thousands of Innocent civilians lost their lives that day, and yes it was awful...but as soon at that 1st plane hit the WTC, hundreds of thousands of people around the world were doomed as it was inevitable that America would go to war.

However 5 years on, and there is still so many different theories what happened that day...some blame Bin laden, some blame the US government and it was all staged. Whatever the truth is, we must come to realise that in this sick & twisted world that we live in we are no longer safe - and pray that when the next terrorist happens (and it will), we wont be caught up in it all.

I think this is by far the most reasonable answer thus far, Whether you''re safe or not has got nothing to do with who did what and which president is a complete ninny, or even, why the countrymen(and women) of that particular country voted for said ninny.

It goes down to circumstance in the end, for those that lost their lives in 9/11 - may their souls rest in peace - were unfortunate to have been there, and those that survived somehow were fortunate to have come out alive. As it is i think we're pretty fortunate being away from where the real conflict is, and The civilians in the middle east are unfortunate to be in the middle of a warzone.

As it is, as default quite rightly put, nobody is truely safe. But I know where i'd rather be.

[PK|Solid_Snake]

The Taliban fuckers are coming back to afghanistan. There are more and more attacks. And when i say massacred i talk not only of the dead (3000 +) but of all the wounded, the people that will never walk again as well as the soldiers that have become nuts.

[PK|Cerro]

Having watched that 9/11 thing, this sticks in my mind "The terrorists will strike again and if we don't make these changes, then what will be our excuse?" - 9/11 commission.

We are giving up our freedom to prevent terrorism and for what? Some shitty strip of land next to israel, some piece of religious rock? That's what all this bullshit is about, my god being greater than all... thats what it all boils down to, religious bullshit. People have to die for a religion?

As for soldiers, well i bet there are more dead insurgents that US/UK soldiers... but i wouldn't do it, too many rules of engagement, i'd go as a merc - only law is the local law and since iraq is lawless, you can shoot first and ask questions later.

[PK|PopeBuckfastXVI]

Yes cerro, and pretty soon they'd find your charred and mutilated corpse swinging from a bridge over the Euphrates, but that'd be fair enough in your opinion I suppose?

[PK|Cerro]

lol now you are just supposing... But i'd have killed a couple hundred/thousand first and done a couple crucifixions just to illustate my point. If we are into the lands of supposing, personally i'd prefer us to nuke Iraq and Iran and similar countries into submission - call it genocide but the war would be won and thats good enough for me.

You'd be surprised just how many mercs are in Iraq just now, under "defense contractors" most are ex-sas or special forces, most are just body guards but the larger groups are contracted with helping to hunt down insurgent forces - search and destory. They are accountable to no one, kill someone and there is no paper work, don't need to notify anyone - are there high death tolls among them? No, mainly because the insurgents have no real military training alot of faith in allah. But between allah and my rifle, i know which one i put my faith in. The mercs don't march along in columns so its hard for them to be targetted and anything they need they can just get off the US army... brilliant way to fight insurgents because you can use their own people as shields.

[PK|PopeBuckfastXVI]

lol now you are just supposing... But i'd have killed a couple hundred/thousand first and done a couple crucifixions just to illustate my point. If we are into the lands of supposing, personally i'd prefer us to nuke Iraq and Iran and similar countries into submission - call it genocide but the war would be won and thats good enough for me.

And that's perfect justification for attacks like New York, Madrid and London, there's no difference between your position and theirs morally, they are equivalent.

[PK|Cerro]

And that's perfect justification for attacks like New York, Madrid and London, there's no difference between your position and theirs morally, they are equivalent.

difference is they started it! I'm just finishing it... if they're all dead they can't do anything about it.

[PK|Colonel Ames]

Still makes you no better than them.

[PK|Cerro]

*shrugs indifference* Rather them than me - victory at any cost.

[PK|Colonel Ames]

Which is why your not a politician thank god

[PK|PopeBuckfastXVI]

difference is they started it! I'm just finishing it... if they're all dead they can't do anything about it.

Exactly what they're thinking...

So when are you going then?

[PK|Cerro]

Which is why your not a politician thank god

No but when my history teacher learned i was joining the army as an officer he said "Cameron if you are joining the army, i'm moving to Mars - hopefully you can't get me there!" and when asked by someone in my class what he thought i'd do in the future he said "He'll murder a lot of people in nasty ways or he'll rule the world and probably kill everyone in it" - I'd just hate to disappoint him.

[PK|PopeBuckfastXVI]

That's a terrible burden for someone to put on you... very hard to live up to that expectation, how selfish of that guy ;)

[Hatchy]

Some interesting points raised there.

To me, all of this terrorism nonsense is purely that. Have you read/heard/seen the 'other stories' following why 9/11 happened ??

I'm taking my side in with them. Steel gurdered buildings DO NOT crumble if they are hit be a plane. The temperature the gurders could withstand was no where near the actual temperature of a plane crash with fuel in it.

Tbh, America squandered their fuel so much so they needed an excuse to invade other countries that still have a supply. So they stage a 'terrorist incident' that the media will feast and love to scare anyone going, all the while America gets the go ahead to invade Iraq.

Its all a load of crap, and how that in the plane crash, they could not find, out of 4 I think it was, 1 Indestructable black boxes that had the information of everything on the plane. What happened to the other 3 or so as well ?? Why have they decided to not let us know how the other planes got taken over ?? .

In my opinion, it is all a plan to scare us common taxpayers into handing them more money. Greedy Bastards.